36: CRICKET RULES: WHY BOUNDARIES ARE IMPORTANT IN RELATIONSHIPS

Depression healing begins with boundaries. In this powerful conversation, Jennifer Stirling-Campbell and Lili Stephenson explore how setting healthy boundaries supports personal development, emotional resilience, and stronger relationships. Using the game of cricket as a teaching tool, they reveal how young girls can learn empowerment, agency, and voice. The discussion also dives into societal pressures on women, the struggle to say no, and the role of forgiveness and healing in reclaiming self-worth.
Whether you're navigating recovery, building self-respect, or guiding others, this episode offers deep insights on how boundaries support depression healing and personal growth.

View all LINKS and supporting content mentioned in this episode HERE: https://imaquarius.com/clear-boundaries-are-important-in-relationships/

List to this episode and learn:

• How healthy boundaries support depression healing and long-term emotional well-being
• Why cricket is a powerful metaphor for teaching and understanding personal boundaries
• The role of your personal voice in setting limits and expressing needs clearly
• How to identify and navigate appropriate vs. inappropriate boundaries
• Why forgiveness is essential to personal growth and trauma recovery
• How agency and choice help reclaim power in your relationships and life decisions
• Practical ways to improve communication skills for setting and maintaining boundaries
• What it really takes to heal from trauma and rebuild emotional resilience
• How Empowered Cricket offers a unique, engaging framework for teaching boundaries to youth

Sign up for my newsletter and get a free 20 minute one-on-one session with me!  https://dashboard.mailerlite.com/forms/767799/111363360441763363/share

Chapters

• 0:00 Depression Healing Begins with Healthy Boundaries
• 2:00 Using Cricket to Teach Boundaries and Empowerment
• 4:15 Real-Life Boundary Struggles and Respecting Differences
• 7:15 Mental Health, Self-Care, and Recognizing Inappropriate Boundaries
• 9:45 Boundaries in the Workplace and Spiritual Life
• 13:15 Empowering Women: Voice, Agency, and Intuition
• 18:45 Teaching Girls to Set Boundaries Through Cricket
• 25:15 Communication, Intuition, and Boundary Assertion
• 35:15 Accountability and Forgiveness in Healing Relationships
• 42:15 Building Safe, Respectful Relationships Through Boundaries

Transcript

0:16

Hello. We are with Lily Stevenson today. She is @worldcricketgirl on Instagram and she is the boundary queen, which is why I wanted to have her on today because boundaries is such a complicated. I feel like we make it too complicated. It really shouldn't be that complicated, but even I get confused about what is an appropriate boundary and what is not. when So Lily created this amazing program for girls, young teens particular, as a guide to help them learn boundaries through learning the game of cricket. Now will you tell us what the game of cricket is? Because sure of our Australian listeners would know what cricket is, but here in the United States it's not as common of a sport. So I did start your program. I loved what I've seen so far. I want to finish it. It's so cool. Like seriously so cool. So just tell us what is cricket and why did you choose that to teach girls about boundaries? Well, I mean have to say, honestly, it wasn't me. I'm a very clever girl. But this is all definitely goes to the Lord because He's awesome that way. I was watching a cricket match. youngest two kids and I lived back and forth between Australia for about four years she was starting to play a game and the team that they were playing, all got in the field and they all yelled one, two, three, protect the boundary. And I was like, oh, and my teaching brain turned on and all of sudden I watched the game through a lens of boundaries because cricket is a game of protecting and exploiting boundaries. in short you have a face-off between you and the person delivering the ball. The person delivering the ball sets up the field delivers the ball in a way who's going to try and get you out. The person who's batting watches that, can see it, is going to push the ball far away enough but really what the batsman wants to do is to exploit the boundary which is if the ball gets to the boundary and hits it on the ground it's a 4 if it goes over it's a 6 and so you have this game of boundaries someone everybody outside they're trying to protect the boundary everybody who's batting is trying to exploit the boundary and it's literally ball by ball who wins. and then in cricket unlike baseball when you're out you're out you're gone. so in that the whole curriculum is based boundaries. think a lot of times when you talk about boundaries, it's like, are my boundaries? And so quite honestly, you yourself get to set up boundaries for you. And the problem is, when your boundaries are crossed as a kid by someone who's supposed to protect you, it causes a massive disconnect. Because now there are no boundaries. I remember one time I was at the post office and I was getting my kids in the car. And I had the side open because I was putting another kid in and this guy got into my car and was like I just wanted to tell you I think all of your kids are great blah blah blah blah like there's a stranger in my car with all of my kids and my brain like I'm back bald I'm like I need to get this guy out of my car I don't know what to do so I come like well thank you I need to leave could you get out of my car and I was trying to be nice about it but then again I think there's that societal thing well you know we're supposed to be nice know, but the end of day, is my boundary? One of the things that we do when we practice empowered cricket is we don't get into a line when we throw the ball. we pick a partner and then walk up and as soon as the first person is like, want you to stop. It's like, okay. So the line to where you throw is very different depending on who you are. Some people you can get right up and start right here. Other people like, my personal boundaries. You need to stand there. about the distance between two people face to face. Some people are more comfortable nose to nose. Like they can handle that. And other people, they need six feet. right. with a group, is respecting those boundaries. It's like, it also gives that visual of, oh, this is my personal boundary, I feel comfortable here. And I can say, this is what I want. And I can voice that. that's another thing with cricket, you have to call because there's two people running. You don't even get a cricket bat when you play in powered cricket. You have to learn how to yell first. You have to yell yes, you have to yell no, and you have to yell wait, which is... when you're just making decisions. Those are things that we need to do and a lot of times there's going to be a lot of pressure when people want you to do something. Well, I need to know, I need to know. And you're kind like, you know what? Wait, I will answer on my time. I'm a very quick decision maker. It's also part of my human design. You can see it if you look at my astrology chart that I can make decisions very intuitively, very fast, and I can just move forward with it easy-peasy. My children, both of them, very different in the way they handle their intuition, if they don't wait, they'll probably make the wrong choice, and you can see that in their chart. And so I've had to just be cognizant of that, that they're not like me. And just because they need that time, I can be the one who's like, come on, just decide. And that's detrimental to them, even though that's not how I am. my oldest makes decisions quite rashly and quickly. My younger... takes so long to make choices and takes a lot of patience for me to wait those weeks it takes him to make a choice and then, I'm still not sure and wait another month. Whereas the other one jumps into decisions and it's kind of crash and burn style and oops, that was the wrong one. And oops, that was the wrong one again, because he hasn't learned to wait yet. it's funny how we are all just so different, and so respecting people's differences, which can be hard to do.... I think especially when I was young I thought everyone was like me and thought like me and when we try to empathize and have compassion we can have more respect for people's boundaries even if it doesn't make sense to us like that's stupid that's a word that I tend to use a lot that's dumb and but whether I understand it or not if I care about them I need to respect that boundary. feel like there's been times in my life when people have almost like blackmailed me because I didn't agree with them on certain things. I was living my life, but they wanted me to live my life the way they wanted me to live it. And they called that a breach of boundaries because I was operating in my space the way I thought was appropriate, but they didn't like it and they would call that a breach of their boundary. I'm responsible for my own thoughts, feelings and actions. You're responsible for your own thoughts, feelings and actions. I surrender control of the outcome. if you feel it's okay to get into a stranger's car on that way, we might need to kind of roll on back a little bit and just say, right, right, right. That's their domain. They get to protect their car. I don't get to decide what I get to do with their car. correct, but you are responsible for your own thoughts, feelings, and actions. when you have a pit of wills, the semantics, the word games, you I'm responsible for my own thoughts, feelings and actions. I surrender control of the outcome. I feel like I need to say something. I can't control everything else around it. can't There's a great guy by the name of Dr. Manning. He's a sports psychologist. one of my daughters took a class from him. And she said that one of the things that he loves to talk about is that self-control self-discipline, which again is those boundaries. Because when you have that self mastery over yourself, then you let go of that need to try and control everyone else around you. And so that's that personal boundaries, personal voice. I am comfortable with this. I am not comfortable with this. And not apologizing that I am comfortable with this or not comfortable with this. I also think that if someone someone's boundaries make it difficult to operate around them, it's okay to say, I respect how you feel. But I can't uphold that standard. at this time. It's just not within abilities to deliver what you're asking for. So maybe I need to distance myself so that you can operate and not be feeling uncomfortable with how I operate. the thing. It's like, I'm responsible for my own thoughts, feelings, and actions. I think there's a lot of times we do our best to be kind and what is that boundary of wow this is what you set up for yourself I'm not comfortable with that. Again, I'm responsible for my own thoughts, feelings, and actions. However we're currently operating isn't working. Pause. Does that mean it's bad? No. if it's 580 lists of boundaries, we're respecting that. I'm now doing something else because I'm responsible for my own thoughts, feelings, and actions. And it doesn't mean that you're horrible or terrible. It's just if that is what that person has decided.... keep your boundaries the way you want, but I'll operate over here until you need me. Just call if you want. I'm a volunteer interviewer for a Real Heart Film Festival. independent films, love it. I interviewed a man by the name of Isaac Kenyon and he wore 30 kg vest and did triathlon to represent men's mental health. the movie's called Weighed Down. and in the interview he said something that's just stuck with me. he said I take care of my mental health like I take care of my physical health. It takes work. And there are non-negotiables. I get eight hours of sleep every night. You will not take me from that. Mm-hmm. if somebody, calls him and needs something, and it's getting to that hour, is he going to be upset, or is he going to say, well, I can, shift my this because I have to do that. But because of his struggle with mental health, he's going to get his eight hours. have to talk to you tomorrow. Is anyone else that you can talk to? It doesn't mean you don't care, but it does mean I gotta take care of me so I don't fall apart so I can help you later and not at my own detriment. And so I've had to learn that as well. I've gotten a lot better at setting boundaries with people, I realize this is going to hurt their feelings. And I'm not looking forward to having that discussion, but sometimes it's necessary in order to protect your space, protect your energy. And it's a learning experience for you as well as the other person where they can either accept or reject what you're saying. I feel like a lot of success when I've been very honest and with the intent of, love you; please help me and I'm so sorry that I have this weakness or that I'm struggling with this so that I have to make this boundary. Mike's here today too. We haven't heard from Mike yet, My sweet husband, you had talked about boundaries in the workplace when we worked at a location that I won't mention, but there weren't clear boundaries about what the jobs were or who was in charge and things didn't get done and people were frustrated. Do you want testify to some of that was going on and why it was so hard? yes, essentially it was ensuing chaos no boundaries. Nobody knows, wasn't clear definition a specific outcome. We lacked some of the tools and things necessary to accomplish some of the things as well. And you can't just make something up that doesn't Get this job done in two days. Wait, we need this tool and that tool. And do you have that for us? No. Good luck. Sometimes we'd get it done. And our hard work would just sit there. Like no one would do anything with it because there was no one to pick up that ball. Honestly, it made me think about our Savior, Jesus Christ. we're going to go to heaven, certain boundaries. Commandments are boundaries. there are boundaries that we just don't understand, the sin or the blind spot that's keeping us from connecting, first of all, with Jesus Christ, because He is the one that wants to connect with us. So what is it on our part that's preventing it? That's kind way I see it. But with His example of commandments, boundaries give us freedom to move within a safe space, according to our agency and choice. If we obey those boundaries or those commandments, He wants to give us those blessings. you have to be willing to make those boundaries for yourself.... Sure. It's universal law, but you don't have to obey it. And when you cross into those danger zones, there's consequences no matter how much we don't want there to be. I was having a discussion with someone recently about the nature of transitioning from a male to a female and they've been considering this and I gave the perspective in terms of previous life before this one. Let's just pretend theoretically that You were a man in the previous life and you are reincarnated now as a woman. The universe wanted you to experience life as a woman to learn the things that a woman experiences on a planet. And if you mess with nature, there's always consequences for that. Period. Period. And so if you go through with hormones messing with your body, that's functioning fine. it's going to cause suffering on some level. it's not that you're bad, just consider what is natural? Breaking an arm, it's in unnatural position now. Now we need to fix it, put it back into its natural position. That's a little different than taking something that maybe you feel broken inside, but your physical body is not broken. So push these boundaries, people have said that this isn't a good idea. Well, I think it's a good idea where universally there's certain laws that are not meant to be broken and we know they have consequences but some people just have to learn the hard way, right? So and that's me too. I've learned plenty of things the hard way. but so going back to transitioning example, someone is like, I'm choosing this. I'm not breaking any laws to do this. This is what I want to do. That is where that personal voice is being expressed and it's like, my own personal opinion on that it did it's irrelevant. It's Um Do you want my advice? No? Perfect! I won't say it and that's another hard thing you know. Let me give you my advice. but you don't really want let me tell it to you anyway because it's so good i love to hear my advice i don't like to take it but i love to give I want to buy that dress. I think it's great. Okay. So get it, you know? Again, there is agency and there's choice. And, people are like, well, don't believe in those. um Okay. However, there are these universal laws. I had a friend of mine who I think about often, she went to one party, she had one hit of cocaine and the rest of her life fell apart. She lost her kids, she lost her husband, and it was one hit. you know? personal boundaries of I don't do these things ever are important. That's where the personal thing comes in, the Lord has given us the big 10 and says, I highly recommend these. However, the choice is up to you. Correct. with people who are not necessarily doing what you think they should and you're going to have to operate and figure out where the boundaries are with all these different people who feel different ways. And sometimes they think that, these are horrible. I hate these commandments. I think that they make people judgmental. And so no, just free and well and everybody do whatever they want. It's not for me to say that, you're not allowed to have those feelings. This analogy just popped into my mind as you're talking but can't pretend things don't exist. when they do exist. We can pretend, but it doesn't make it not so. guess, I guess, If you're on a windy road, let's say you're on top of a mountain and you look across to the other mountain next to you, and there's a road that switchbacks back and forth down the mountain and all the way up the other mountain. And it's got guardrails and these guardrails are boundaries. We could pretend and just drive there straight like we want a straight road. a direct line the shortest distance but there's an ultimate reality that exists there. If we were to go straight we would die. We want to believe we can go straight, but the reality is if we stay within those boundaries and we stay on the road, we ultimately will get to our destination and get there quicker and safer and have everything intact, our agency, we'll achieve what we want by recognizing and obeying laws that do exist. The world has a way pulling things out context, like the joy drugs They don't last. uh when we do need to act and move into a situation and lend a hand. the world would be like, no, you got to respect that boundary. But if you're listening to that intuition, you can see real boundary there. God will show you. like His boundary versus So maybe for example, someone's saying, I don't want your help, but the spirit's telling you, they really need help. And they're just saying that cause they're, they're hurting and they're pushing me away, but they actually want me. You'd only know that intuitively if you were tuning in. Yeah. Or, even somebody that might have, a flat tire on the side of the road. If you ask and they say, no, thank you, then you, then you respect the boundary. Right. They've said, but if you don't ask, that's just being selfish. If you can help and you don't, but if maybe you can't, and that's your boundary too, that's fine. but I like that. would like to come back around a little bit to personal boundaries, especially as it pertains to women and young girls, which is your focus. What do you feel is the hardest thing for young women to do as far as setting boundaries with other boys, for example? What is your biggest struggle that you see in women? The biggest thing that I've noticed through traveling the world, talking to people, it's personal voice. I think this. I believe this. I don't believe this. And it's okay if I believe this and you believe that. And we can still talk and have a conversation. There is this... lost art. it's hard because if you have been abused as a younger person or I mean in general, you're not used to being heard. right? And especially if that is by someone who is in any position of authority. Or even when I speak up, it makes it worse. get There's just this idea of it's best if I don't say anything. cricket you have to yell. You have to yell And when I was traveling, the girls didn't yell. The boys yelled. The girls didn't yell. Why not? Why are the girls not yelling? So I was walking through the park one day and I was getting from point A to point B and there were two girls playing. There was no one else around. I mean, it was two moms, two kids and green as far as the eye could see. And I heard they're having a good time. And all of sudden I heard one of the moms yell, Sophie, don't yell. And I'm like, who's she bothering? I'm like, what? Let the kid yell, you know? Oh I was in such shock. I didn't go over there and say, mom, what are you doing? Why are you yelling at your kid? Because again, that wasn't my, but I just, took that experience to heart and I kind of used that as my litmus as I was going through and I was teaching and trying to get these kids to yell. I was like, Oh, my giddy aunt, how many times have these kids been told not to yell? Well, specifically girls. I think that boys, it's seen as more appropriate. And girls are supposed to be sweet and quiet and docile and not passionate or loud or angry like I was. Yeah. Well, and I think that's part of where the problem lies is we have these societal vision of what a girl should be like and what a boy should be like. And so that's part of where... Why does it matter if a girl yells? Why does it matter if a girl wants to wear a ball cap? mean, like years ago, if you wanted to wear pants and a t-shirt, you would have been like, blasphemy. And it's like, that's what boys do. Are you trying to be a boy? And now it's no big deal. But the way that society evolves over time, it's interesting, but that certain things are acceptable or not. When, why is that bad? It's not bad. Why are you making a big deal out of it? She wants to be loud, whatever. So I think part of that, The a lot of girls don't want to be girls anymore is because they're sick of being told that you have to be docile and quiet and just do what you're told. been going on for quite some time and I think a lot of women are revolting in many different ways. Yeah, well, and that's where the personal voice comes in. we have that first lesson we talk about yelling there's no bat, like there's no bat, it's your voice. That is what we're using first. I was teaching elementary school a few months ago and there was a girl who didn't speak. She just didn't. By the third lesson, by that time she had a bat because she would whisper, she would whisper loud. I said, you know, I'm going to take that. She hit the ball. Her eyes lit up and she yelled, like that. And for her I was like we're gonna take it. But then after that she went in and she whispered and asked her teacher a question. Had not talked to her teacher the entire school year up to that point. She whispered a question. And for me that is the biggest win. you know? But the empowered cricket that it's already, a safe space. We treat each other a certain way. We are going to be talking. We are going to yell. We have to yell and we have to yell, but know that you are safe. We respect your personal boundary physically. We can see where it is. And all of those things just really able to speak up. And then the outcome is that hopefully then they take those skills into school, other hobbies.... There was a woman who was helping us in Australia and she worked for a car rental company and she contacted me like a week later, she said, okay, I have to tell you this. I got an email from the regional boss who was going to come in and take, five cars out of my place to another location. And she said, before teaching your girls about this and helping, I would have just let him. But I looked at my inventory, I looked at what my needs were, and I emailed them back and said, no, you cannot have those cars. This is what we have. This is what we need. you take them from, whatever location. And she said, I never would have done it if I hadn't sat there and helped with this because I couldn't say, okay, girls, speak up for yourself when here I am at work needing to do the same for myself. And I was like, that's cool. I'm so excited. Yeah. Because they're so simple. It's just simple little things that you practice and it's set up. It's five different concepts, but the way it's set up is you can do it five days, If you do it as an after school and you wanna do it once a week, then, it goes into five weeks and then the sixth week you just play around. Or literally 45 minutes. And sounds like you could just have a resource for PE teachers. it would be perfect. you can teach it boys, boys or girls. It's not necessarily only girls. for sure. And we have conversations for boys as well. We're actually in the process of working with an unnamed university to use it in their freshman orientation um to prevent basically student on student violence. Yeah. Because everybody has the lingo. Yes, no, wait. everybody has the lessons and they know and again, that's just like a five-day thing. But in cricketing nations, it's set up that basically you revisit those topics all season. So even though it's five ideas, then you just practice it again and again and again. build a cricket team of young girls in your community, if you're a mom listening to this or a dad, and implement these all year round. Within your community, there's not a lot of cricket teams. You'd have to create them. But that is Lily's hope, is that she can create these cricket teams all over the country that compete like they do in Little League Soccer. pretty much, but taught this way. And the key because parts of the country, there is a lot of cricket, but it's traditional cricket. my hope is that... schools will catch on because quite honestly empowered cricket is a social emotional program. cricket is the vehicle that we are using these really important skills. yes no wait. fundamental to decision making. and I loved how you said earlier on how you are a quick intuitive decision maker. That's awesome. You learn how to do that in the empowered cricket because the bowler delivers the ball, you've got, depending on how fast it comes at you, 2.5 seconds to make a decision how you're going to hit it. Because Cricket is a 360 degree field, you can hit it anywhere. And so you can see where that person wants you to hit. You can look for the gaps. There are so many ways to hit a cricket ball. And you're like, all right, this is my decision. Once it's hit, and then you have to make the call. Is it far away enough that we can get across safely? Yes, no, or wait, and then yes or no. So it's decision-making practice all the time. Sometimes you're gonna get it wrong. Is there kind of a leader who makes that call? The one hitting the ball? hitting the ball. getting the ball. Well, the thing is, if you can hit it and you can see it, if it goes behind you, your partner makes the call because they can see it. They can let you know whether, yep, it's far enough we can go or no, don't because it's only two feet behind you. and then there's trust. mean, there's all, there's all sorts of stuff. Like the curriculum is great. So it's, on Moodle. So if you contact me on Instagram, I'm @worldcricketgirl on Instagram. have to actually manually add you to the class. out to Lily if you're interested in that class. I loved what you said about the voice and elevating your voice. It made me think I've started reading this book called Think and Grow Rich. Have you ever read that book? Mike and I are reading it together. And there's a story in here about this. I might just read it. Do you mind? Yeah, go ahead. I love it. there was Mr. Darby and he was a child watching this happen. said one afternoon Mr. Darby, was helping his uncle grind wheat in an old-fashioned mill. The uncle operated a large farm in which a number of colored share crop farmers lived. This was long ago when there was slavery. Quietly the door was opened and a small colored child, the daughter of a tenant, walked in and took her place near the door. The uncle looked up, saw the child, and barked at her roughly. What do want? Meekly, the child replied, my mama says send her 50 cents. I will not do it, the uncle retorted. Now you run on home. Yes, sir, the child replied, but she did not move. So here's the wait. She's just like, hmm. The uncle went ahead with his work so busily engaged that he did not pay attention to the child to observe that she did not leave. When he looked up and saw her still standing there, he yelled at her. I told you to go home. Now go or I'll take a switch to you. The little girl said, yes, sir, but she did not budge an inch. The uncle dropped a sack of grain he was about to pour into the millhopper, picked up a barrel stave, and started towards the child with an expression on his face that indicated trouble. Darby held his breath, so he's a child watching this happen. He was certain he was about to witness a murder. He knew his uncle had a fierce temper. He knew that the colored children were not supposed to defy white people in that part of the country. When the uncle reached the spot where the child was standing, she quickly stepped forward one step, looked into his eyes, and screamed at the top of her shrill voice, My mama's gotta have that 50 cents. The uncle stopped, looked at her for a minute, then slowly laid the barrel stave on the floor, put his hand in his pocket, took out half a dollar and gave it to her. The child took the money and slowly back toward the door, never taking her eyes off the man who she had just conquered. After she had gone, the uncle sat down on a box and looked out the window into space for more than 10 minutes. He was just pondering with awe over the whipping he had just taken. Mr. Darby was doing the same thinking and he was just witnessing this and going, how did a small girl with no rights legally pull that off? She took the wind out of his uncle. She got the 50 cents she wanted and he was about to possibly kill her. But she stood her ground and demanded what was rightly hers, which apparently was 50 cents. So it's each of us. Where are we not talking? how could we be more like this little girl and asserting is rightfully ours? she didn't say, you give me that 50 cents or I'm going to kill you or I deserve 50 cents. Or I just want it. Like it was clearly something her mom had earned and she was saying, you give me what is rightfully mine. And she was setting that boundary. But I just loved that story. It really hit me as to how am not asserting my boundaries and how am I letting people walk over me or how am I letting even my thoughts walk all over me, walking over myself. and it comes again from what has happened to us as kids, because if you're in a position like that as a kid and your agency is taken from you because of A, B, D, or E, you have things happen to you that you don't even have words to describe. You can't even go tell somebody what happened to you because you don't even know what it was. We then get ourselves into these patterns. Well then, I didn't have rights then, ergo I don't have rights here and I don't have rights there. It's giving away our ability to choose for ourselves. So for example, as a teacher you hear, well I couldn't do my homework. I had to see my best friend. made me come over. And I'm kind like, well, she didn't make you come over. No, no, no, she made me come over. I was like, no, you chose to go over. Well, da, da, da, you know. Right, or it's this, or it's that, right, right, right. And so a lot of... societal things it's somehow better if I don't take responsibility for my actions. Mike was talking about there's no growth, there's no progression, everybody... Yep, now a puppet people are having me move and do. And as soon as you can step back and say, no, no, no, no, no, Find your voice and you know what, if you make a mistake.... I made a mistake. Guess what everybody? I made a mistake. My bad. Who do I need to apologize to? So sorry. trying to do better. And there is something that is so freeing about that because if it's so-and-so's fault and so-and-so's fault sometimes, someone, rear-ended me. That was someone else's fault. But what can I do now? I can call my husband Or I can, call the insurance, hey, what do I do? there are things that we can do. You can have that positive attitude and positive outlook and everything, but at end of the day, sometimes we have to do things and that's that agency. And it starts with, hey, I can say something. I feel this. I feel, you know what I mean? And it's cool. It's so cool. us, like me, who maybe didn't feel like we could communicate very well, like when I did communicate, nothing came out right. It felt like no one actually heard what I was saying. And I would get really angry. And then it was just kind of a mess. Especially in school, I just kept my mouth shut because I didn't want to get in trouble. I had a really traumatic experience as a child that I was just like, I'm just not going to talk because want to get in trouble again. That was embarrassing, you know? But I think as people learn how to use their voice, it's important to understand that could possibly be very messy and ugly for a while because you're going to be imperfect at it. It might make people angry. You will say the wrong things as you are coming back into using your voice and to be patient with yourself and others. as you've probably got a lot of anger you're working through, right? And of coming out as a good conversation or in a way that people will listen to you, it might come out as blah. And then people are like, my gosh, stop. I can't stand you. And then it has the opposite effect. So learning how to communicate effectively, it's a process. Be patient with yourself just because it goes poorly because you're trying a new skill. Don't stop trying. Don't stop trying. treat it like a university. You're going to Harvard Law School. That's the hardest there is, right? And it's not an easy thing to get a Harvard Law degree. Treat your conversation like that. If you are one of those who does not speak, hasn't spoken for a long time, it's okay. You're going to fail. Just accept it right now. You're going to do a lot of failing and it's okay. There are so many resources, including on this podcast, where we talk a lot about how to effectively communicate, but are books out there as well as just your own practice and asking people who do communicate effectively. Like I just went through this horrific experience where I spoke and it really went poorly. Can you tell me what you would have said and how you would have handled it? Like Search out people who communicate really well and ask them to help you. most people who like to talk are willing to talk to you like to be asked for help. like, yeah, I'll tell you how to do it. So seeking out people who are good at what you're not good at and being patient with yourself when you mess up. At least you're trying. We need to be speaking out even if it's kind of ugly for a while. don't, settle for this is just how I communicate. I'm a mean, brash person. We can do better than that. Right? And Mike's, so good at communicating. He's very soft and gentle most of the time. Whereas I'm just like, bam, like laser beam. But We compliment each other. We compliment each other. But he's very honest too. He can be direct but in a kind way. And he'll speak truth even when it's hard to hear, but I think that's most effective way to set a boundary, is to speak the truth. Maybe it's not easy for people to hear and you know it, but you're willing to say it anyway and to be kind. And Mike could give the class examples of how to communicate kindly and effectively. He corrects me a lot. Yeah. And, as a guy, you gotta know when communicate. Sometimes in the heat of a moment, there's just things you don't say, right? You just don't say things. You wait. then, once the mood shifts, then you can say those things, but it's those cues you got to be able to pick up on. If you can't pick up on that, it's going to create a lot of contention. Well, that's it. if you struggled though with cues, it is something that you can learn, but I remember working with somebody and at the end of the day, the bottom line was, is you can learn how to communicate. just takes time for some. then that's the decision of like, is that something I want to do? And if the answer no, say, hey, I don't wanna do this. I want to be a train wreck, communicator, that. okay with it. I don't know, I guess it's just that.... I'm responsible for my own thoughts, feelings, and actions. coolest things I learned. Yeah. like, oh to communicate well. I'm not ready to heal. Because I find myself in those spaces sometimes, Lord, please give me a minuscule amount of desire that I can move past this. I don't want to. And what I don't want to means is I don't want to see it. I don't want to go back to those things that I believed since I was a child. That's scary. I don't want to see it, I don't want to feel it again, I'd rather just pretend like it's fine, it's not there, it's good enough to be a terrible communicator, I'm good with that. Right, and some people, yeah, it's hard because like with some it could be trauma-based, some it could just be skill-based. um You know, some there's a... many bad experiences when we are stinky at something and other people are good at it. I've had so many embarrassing moments with this, I'm just done trying. I don't even want to, yeah, you know. I got too many bad looks from people who rolled their eyes at me or didn't understand or whatever it is. but at the end of the day when we learn... I can't tell you how many times it's like, No, that's not gonna work. And I'm like, okay, well, what about this? What about that? What about that? What about that? It's like people want me to go away. And I'm like, Have we thought about this? And sometimes the answer is no, because, whoever it is that I'm working with, they're not interested and they're not interested in the 25 ways that I've come up with to say, but this could work. um so bad. But thought of this? We could do it this way? Are you sure? And they're like, really! I'm saying no. Sometimes that's boundary issue with me is, I'm not respecting that boundary. Shoot, because I didn't get the message. No, no, you're not interested. oh, okay. we give ourselves some grace and we just say, all right, well, that didn't go well or that went all right and what can I do better? And we go forward. But being able to speak up, being able to know what your boundaries are, and then being able to say, yes, no, wait, let me think about that. Yes, that's fine. No, it's not fine. And I think those are just some really basic, skills. And then the cool thing with the cricket is it's kinetic, it's kinetic learning, because when we talk about that, and then we yell and then we move now I'm putting this It's just awesome. we can all get along this is great let's do it And when we don't, I I like to think of even to the extreme of Hitler, because that's just the kind of the go-to for a man who broke as many boundaries as humanly possible. believe is that it's important to differentiate between the boundary being broken and the person that is breaking the boundary, we can still have respect for the person, and have utmost disrespect for what they are doing If you were sitting in front of Hitler, would I spit in his face? I'd want to. Would it help him? it do anything? Sometimes you have to use force to protect yourself. War has sometimes been inevitable they're bringing war to you and you have to fight back to protect yourself. But I don't know, it's just a thought. we have those experiences, There are two schools of thought when it comes to trauma healing. There's one school of thought that says you don't have to forgive. ah Of course, there is traditional Christian vein that says you've been commanded to forgive. I go towards the commanding to forgive because if you don't forgive, you are holding onto that weight yourself. And it's not fair you because it wasn't your fault to begin with. It doesn't mean that you've condoned what's happened. It doesn't mean that an adult in your family that abused you that you're now going to take your kids over. and No, because we're aware and we do things. Is there a timeline for it? No. In fact, one of my, really good friends whom I loved, what she has done is she says I'm not working on forgiving person X I'm working on becoming a better person and as I become a better person then that will come naturally. uh Right. As opposed to hyper focusing on said person. again it's like we don't want to go through this right but I oh yeah no no no no no that's awesome no that's awesome just not willing to carry it. I'm like, heck no, like they hurt me. Why would I let them hurt me the next 10 years of my life while I'm waiting to forgive them? No, it's happening. I'm giving myself three months. Like literally I told God, you are going to help me forgive this person in three months. golly we're doing it because I do not want to carry this with me any longer or they win they win their karma becomes my karma I'm connected to them no thank you like cut it off by gones be gones forever thinking of those things still make me sad situation that happened but it doesn't pain me anymore. you can get to the point where you're like, okay, I got up, I had breakfast, I went to work, went to the gym, went home, went to bed. If you can insert traumatic event into... a line like that without having it cause anxiety, stop breathing, wanting to cry or throw up. Hey, I'm doing all right. And that is the beautiful thing about healing. And again, it is something that we can do. But it takes time. It takes work. But at the end of it, if we are in a space where we have given those decision making to others, we won't take back what's rightfully ours, which is I have the ability to choose. I can say yes, I can say no, I can say wait. And I can make a bad decision and go, wow, that was a really bad decision. I'm gonna come back from it. It's rough, it's learning, but you know what? Yeah. With forgiveness in mind, I want to say that my other two marriages did not work out because I was married to two people who were not in a place where they could forgive. And every little thing that I did wrong just compounded. And I can't blame them. They were where they were at. But being married to Mike again is night and day it's different because this man and I'm pretty good forgiving a complete forgive pretty quickly; mike can probably forgive faster than I can. incredible at it in marriage if you've got that going for you and that's not to say you should tolerate uh... astronomically bad behavior; you need to set boundaries and say no I'm not willing to put up with this or I'm leaving or I'm going to go to hotel tonight or I'm gonna have to make changes whatever those are, but not to put undue pressure on the partner. You're gonna do what I want, you do your own laundry. Come on, you just put your laundry in a bag and leave it there if you're really not willing to do it until they have to clean their own laundry. But that could be one way to do it and not to be mean. It's just like, I just don't have time. I'm sorry. I need your help. Is this how it is? But Mike, just I'm grateful for you. That's all I gotta say. Thank you. I'm grateful for her too. Every woman and man deserves a spouse who they can feel safe around. Again, there's that safe in a boundary of their marriage where they feel like they can be imperfect as they're striving to perfect themselves and trying, but messing up, we're going to mess up. We're going to say things that hurt each other's feelings. In my case, I'm going to yell sometimes or say things that I really shouldn't have said. and to have a spouse who can accept my apology and realize that all doing the best we can. we can. Well, I think one of the things I learned as I was going through this stuff is that If you look in the Bible, you're together and, the person that you're supposed to do everything for is your spouse, when the key thing is safe. because there's one thing, for example, if it's the washing, right? Hey, I really need you to do my washing for me because I'm going away next week and I've got to work 12 hours, and, fight ensues over that. Okay, that's one thing. If there are things that cross personal boundaries that are more tender, you do not have to... acquiesce to anything like that because that's different. And it's not like, well, have no personality or I have no say; whatever my spouse says I need to do because that's love. I would like to challenge that. you know? person A leaves, you know, a sock on the floor and it makes you absolutely crazy. It's like, okay, is that something I can let go of? Is that really important? But then you should be in a relationship that you're safe enough that you can talk about these types of things. It's like if you can't, then maybe step back and Mike's trying Well, to go back to the washing machine thing. I'm not going to sit here and say, doing the laundry a woman's job That's, pretty shallow. But the problem I have right now of doing the laundry more physical barriers getting in the way. Our washer and dryer the doors don't open all the way. Jennifer fits in there really nice. And she's able to pull laundry out of the washer, put it in the dryer. And for me, like a bull in a china shop in there and I almost have to put a hole in the wall to create some space to somehow make that maneuver happen. we're not saying Mike is fat. He's just bigger than I am. Well, and his back's not great either, but our agreement was that was we both had a boundary and Mike wanted to use Tide, and I was not comfortable with Tide and so he said well if I can't use tied then I'm not doing the laundry and I agreed. If neither of us have been able to come to an end conclusion that we may have had to send a laundry to someone else to do it. Well, the good news is that there's always a solution, whatever it is. A lot of laundry talk. Sorry, guys. You're like, enough with the laundry. It's the little things. It is the little things. I heard from a family therapist, I think she said 60% or 70% of all of marital problems are ongoing. Like it's the same thing we're fighting about. It's the ceiling fan concept. there's a, Joe Cox has this great movie and in one of the scenes couple they're laying in bed looking up and it's the ceiling fan and the ceiling fan is just going around and around and around and they're having this conversation and you're just watching and I'm like oh there it is They're talking about it again. You're like, here we are talking about it. around and around. We've actually had arguments about the ceiling fan. I'm cold. I'm hot. The thermostat. Almost every day on that one. Oh bless. No, I get that. She's from Arizona and she's complaining about being cold. Ever since I've been here, I've literally been dying. it's rough here. 75 degrees is not cold. Oh, and it was funny when he first moved here, it was the summer and he had the thermostat down to like 65. And I was like, you dude, nobody that here. Seventy seven is low as anybody goes. I can't afford that man. I come from a place where I had my thermostat sitting right around 69. 68 during the night. That is wishful thinking and we'll have about a thousand dollar bill at end of the month. Well, Lily, I am so grateful to you for being here today. Is there anything else you want to say we close? today? just want to say that we can heal. it is possible. it's a lot of work and it will feel horrible when you're in it. um I snapped my ankle last year and that was the first major bones plural that i broke. and I would rather do my other ankle than go through emotional healing that I've done. however, man it's worth it. so if you're here and you It can be. And don't let it deter you. When it gets hard, just keep going. There is light at the end. I promise you. I promise, true. There is. Yep, yep, there is. And I mean, that's like, if you can get a hold of Weighed Down, watch that. It's like an eight minute movie. it's not long, but it's so good. And check out Empowered Cricket. Help other people heal while you are too. It's great. And I'll put a link to that on my website as well for the movie so you can all access it. But thank you again, Lily Stevenson. Again, tell us your Instagram one more time.@worldcricketgirl; Lily Stevenson and Mike, thank you for being here, both of you today. Yes, this was great. This was a great conversation. Great to listen. a good listener. I'm going to practice letting you talk more. I'll get better at it. I promise. There we thank you again to all who have made it this far into the podcast. You are listening to the Overcome Depression podcast. We will have more content for you next week that will be amazing and insightful and help you get new tools so you can heal. We will see you next time.