41: BEWARE OF PRIDE

Overcoming depression requires humility—beware of pride, which can quietly block your path to healing.
 In this powerful episode of the Overcome Depression Podcast, Jennifer Stirling-Campbell and John dive into the often-overlooked role of pride in depression. They share honest reflections and personal stories about how pride has interfered with their healing, relationships, and even to their connection with God.

View all LINKS and supporting content mentioned in this episode HERE: https://imaquarius.com/beware-of-pride-chapter2-41/

Learn why humility isn't a weakness but a strength, and why true healing often begins when we stop comparing ourselves to others and start accepting help. If pride has ever kept you from being vulnerable or fully trusting God, this conversation can be the one that changes your life.

This episode is for you if: 

-You want to overcome depression but feel something inside keeps resisting help.

-You’ve struggled to accept pride as a personal obstacle to healing.

-You often compare yourself to others and feel like you come up short.

-You’ve tried to “go it alone” and are starting to realize you need people in your life.

-You believe in God but have difficulty trusting Him fully with your struggles.

-You’re ready to grow through humility and finally break pride’s grip on your happiness.

Chapters

• 0:00 00:00 – Pride & Depression: What No One Talks About
• 1:29 How Pride Worsens Depression
• 3:57 Stop Comparing: Why Comparison Fuels Depression
• 6:13 Humility: The First Step to Healing Depression
• 8:18 Real Life Lessons in Humility
• 10:27 Isolation & Ego: A Silent Danger
• 12:07 You Can’t Heal Without Support
• 14:32 Let’s Talk About It: The Power of Honest Dialogue
• 21:50 Accept Help, Face Mistakes, and Grow
• 29:42 Trusting God Over Ego

Transcript

0:00

If you want to overcome depression or you just want more ease and joy in your life, you are at the right place. And If you are new to this podcast, welcome. if you enjoy this episode today, please leave us a five-star review. If you are a returning listener and have already left a review for us, I am so proud of you. And that leads us to our topic that John and I are going to be talking about today, which is pride. of us have ever struggled with that, have we, John? Oh no, I've been humble since day one. That has been my number one vice, think, throughout history and into today. You can ask my husband. asked him, can you think of a specific story I could tell about pride? And he basically said that, no, it's just, part of who you are on a regular basis. Thanks, Mike. Basically I struggle like many people do, But this goes way back to when I was like four years old, this story shows just how prideful I was as a very depressed person was really sad that I was a child and so depressed, but at age four, my mom tells me that I came to her very serious and said, mom, what am I the best at? And she was shocked. Like, why would a four-year-old be asking me this question? And I was dead serious. I wanted to know what I was better at than everybody else. And I think there's a part of me when I was feeling depressed. It's not the case anymore, but felt like if I couldn't be better than other people, was less, I was unworthy. it fueled some of that depression. A lot of the depression came from this sense of pride. she tried to talk me out of it. Jennifer, you don't have to be the best. You could just be Jennifer. Just do your best. It's good enough. I couldn't accept it. And this went with me through elementary school, high school. If anybody won a contest and I didn't win, jealousy would set in. I would immediately find ways in my head why Their artwork was not as good as mine and I should have won. Or gosh, I wish I could draw as well as I do. I'm I'm terrible artist. it was either putting myself above or below. Constantly. other women, other girls my age, thinking, am I prettier or uglier than they are? Am I smarter or dumber than they are? If someone did better on a test than me, it would make me feel bad, no matter how well I did on the test. as a runner, when I was competing, it was very easy for me to look at the placement. Did I win first place versus how fast did I run today? how well did I perform regardless of the people around me? Because can win a race, but against who? You could really not run that fast and win plenty of races, but you could come in 20th place against the best runners in the world and get an incredible, time it's all in how you look at things. And I think the Proud looking up is a bigger problem in most cases than the proud looking down, meaning looking up at people who have more and being jealous of them. Letting that make you miserable or wishing that they were lower than you or making excuses in your mind why they don't deserve it and you do. It's very prevalent in society and making people miserable. it's not enough to have enough only if it's more than the other person. Do I have more followers than they do? Do I have more money than they do? Instead of just being happy with the followers you have, the money you have, the comforts you do have, can honestly say that I'm in a place right now with a podcast where I do compare myself to other podcasts, or how can I reach that level, how can I get the word out more, and so forth, and I struggle with pride in that particular area sometimes because I suppose I get jealous sometimes of, I'm doing all this work and I would like it to be doing better than it is. How do they do it? bet you they're not doing as much work as I am. Those kind of thoughts. So that's something I'm working on of just letting that go completely it in God's hands, which has always been my goal. However, in my marriage, in my home, in my life, in my career, a mother, a friend, I no longer compare myself to other people and I am so happy for it. I look at my life and I love my life because I built it with God, and I don't want anybody else's life. the problems I have. happy to accept, well, happy's maybe stretching a little bit, maybe not in the moment, but when all is said and done. I am grateful to accept the challenges that I have been given because they are mine and they're designed for me help me to create the next chapter of my life and to help and cooperate with people around me. So that's how I view the world now. That was not always the case. And I think that whenever I am finding myself feeling sad when someone else hit the jackpot, you know, for lack of better term, I know that, whoa, I'm not in a very good place right now, I gotta fix this. That's the first thing that goes when I start to slip into an old pattern, or just not getting enough sleep, not taking care of myself, not praying or reading scriptures as much That's usually the first thing that goes. It's the judgment and the comparison starts coming back. It's the pride. And when I'm really in alignment, I do not have those thoughts. I am genuinely happy for other people who have more or are better than me at whatever it is. I can feel that joy for them and think, wow, what an inspiration. I do that too. that's the hallmarks of humility. oftentimes those of us that have been prideful, and I can say pretty much everybody is prideful at some point in their lives, even if they don't quite realize it. there's different types of pride. Sometimes it can be good, just the se- bad. But in our language, there's a good pride. It has to be justified through God's sense of justice the big problem is the world that we live in is so built on being better than everybody else. regardless of what you do. It's always aiming for the bigger, the better, nobody you're the boss or the peon. you want to be in charge, you want people underneath you. And again, it's that whole, you want to look up to the point where then you can look down Learning how to accept where you're at in life, accept the gifts that you've been given, accept the life that God has planned for you. And if you really stop and think about that, God loves everybody so much that he took the time and the effort to custom design a life specifically for you. He wants you to enjoy that life, which is why you don't dwell on what others or don't have. We can help each other and learn from each other, but never let the sense of, I want to be that other person. I'm, Pride leads to envy, jealousy hatred and anger. And then ultimately something fails. you become depressed I think that was my worst fear. If I failed at anything, I was the failure. It wasn't, that was a failure, was, I was a failure. Because I put so much clout into deeds and status. Yeah, and then on the opposite end, if you are successful, if you've embraced pride to the point where you've now risen to the very top, it can feel hollow because it's not genuine. When it's not genuine, you that emptiness, which then of course leads to depression. Win or lose, you're still going to lose. I mean, even if you think you're winning, you're losing. The only way to win is to learn how to be humble in that you are content with what you have. to be The easiest way to learn humility, experience. there's one thing God is really good at doing it's teaching us through firsthand experience. if he wants you to learn a lesson, He will create the scenario so that you learn what He wants you to learn. You commented that you were four years old when you had your first, bout of that. I'm just as guilty by the time I got into high school, I removed a lot of the emotion out of my life. I had formed a way of thinking that was based on pure logic. I could get the better of other people. I It was really kind of deceptive so I learned a lot of the bad ways to do things. um But I will tell I remember to this day when I thought I had mastered everything that I finally understood the meaning of life. I finally had control I remember thinking to myself and boldly stating I don't need God. I am God. And I literally, I did. shortly thereafter is when my life began to fall apart. That's the compelled to be humble versus choosing to be humble. I've had a lot of compelled be humble experiences sure. Yeah, my one friend Carl, when he says, I think I can understand the way God was thinking. He saw you putting all that effort in the wrong direction. And then when you made that statement, thought that was the truth I could just imagine God up in heaven giving you a quick smack and saying, all right, it's time to teach the truth. if doesn't need me, well, I'll step back and show him what life is like without me. That's exactly what He did. And when I said my life fell apart, everything I thought I had control over He's like, well, if you think you can handle it, I'm going to step back and let you understand everything I've been doing in the background that you have not realized. podcast number 17, God is Real, that's kind of where we're pulling this from. That story is epic. he goes into much more detail about this. people learn, I fell to the exact same sin that Satan did I know Satan said I am God. He I made the same exact statement without realizing at the time that he had done I get it. course, the big advantage Jesus gave me a second chance and I will be eternally grateful for that second chance because it changed me. People who are in situations where they rebuke God, and it doesn't have to be with words, it could be an attitude or a way of life where on my own, I don't need help, what life's about, I make the choices, I fix everything. That was kind of me even though I had faith as a child and teen and young adult. I basically put myself in a place where I distanced God didn't believe he could help me. And it's not the best environment if you want to heal, to uh put limits on God in a sense and tell him what he can and can't do for you. Furthermore, when it comes to depression, you're basically putting limits on progression. The pride will not let you heal, it will not let you progress, it will keep you essentially where you are, but in some cases, will even become more dark, worse, more corrupt, more inky, goopy, in terms of what I see spiritually when I see depression. Because every time life gets harder, God is allowing you to suffer because It's an act of love. He's trying to help you understand. I'm here. Don't push me away. But I see some people becoming more more hateful towards God rather than the other way around. So humility can only come when you recognize the lesson and accept it as a gift not as a curse. and I will say the key to healing in all cases is to recognize that you're sick, often times with pride, I know especially with me, it's like you're walking with blinders. You become so narrow focused on a certain concept that you fail to see everything else around you. Now in terms of depression, I want to add to what you're saying, because I think people who are depressed are to say, well, of course I know I'm sick. I'm taking drugs for this Of course I know I'm sick. The problem is when you're sick, you're so freaking blind and you think you know all these things that you don't actually know. that's where you get stuck. It's not in that you don't know you're kind of sick, but you don't realize the depth at which you are sick. It's not just take a pill and, it'll remedy itself or this is just a genetic problem. Like, it goes deeper than that with the lies, the layers and layers of lies that we are led to believe that keep us from letting go of the depression. It doesn't have to be a part of your identity. talking about lies, I think one of the biggest lies that the world has for us is that we have to do it alone. even if you go back to Adam, God created Adam, but he knew Adam alone was not good, which is why he created Eve as a companion, someone to help. And that's the way we all have to be. So even if you are a loner socialite, it doesn't matter. You still need other people especially those who are willing to help you recognize when you are making a mistake, when you need help. When you have pride depression, you become so focused that as soon as you start dismissing your friends, your family, you start dismissing everybody God has put around you for support when you start relying on yourself and yourself alone. That's when things break apart. talking to Mike about this last night. I wanted to share some of the things he shared. He has this very unique gift and ability to... talk to anybody about anything, any topic, does not get elevated, does not get offended, can introspect, consider what they're saying, let them talk, even if what they're saying is ridiculous or would offend someone else. What he struggles with though is that most people not capable of the same thing. So when he goes to share his perspective... The tendency for most of us is to dismiss cutoff in terms of social media. Modern day pride would be to say something snarky, block them, and never talk to them But he does not struggle with this. He has this uncanny ability to not get triggered, not be offended, even really tough topics to talk about. He actually enjoys... discourse, the interchange of thoughts and ideas. It's hard to find people like that who he can do that with. So when he finds somebody he'll hang on to that friend because the kind of tolerance that that takes and the kind of humility it takes to listen to different ideas that don't resonate with you, but they don't have to cause you to cut off somebody or treat them rudely or run away. To be able to just observe it. And he has that ability. I do sometimes. Other times have to really watch myself because the pride wells up into me and I'm like, no, no, no, this is wrong. What they're saying is wrong. And sometimes it's not about being right or wrong. It's just about connecting and validating and conversing and making the other person feel heard and loved, and at that point they're more likely to listen to what you have to say. But I think we live in a society where we've been conditioned to not have to tolerate it. We can find so many things that resonate with us by picking and choosing what we decide to watch on social media. The algorithm chooses things for us that we want to see. And so when something comes in front of us that makes us uncomfortable, it's like, ah, freak out. a very strong pride response. Why should it affect us like that? It's unbelievable to me, even I do it sometimes. And even when I'm having a conversation with my husband, he doesn't get elevated. And sometimes he'll say something causes me to introspect in ways that I don't want to. That's an ugly part of me I don't want to see. a pride response. When we're willing to listen and introspect and consider those ugly parts of us that people might bring out for us to look at. thank you. Wow, yeah, that is kind of ugly. Hmm, what can I do about that instead of, I don't wanna see it, Get away. that's very true. And the other thing people need to realize is that it is a constant struggle. It never ends. sometimes it comes from places you don't even expect. And if you listen to my story you might be like, oh, he is so into God. and he's so holy I will be the first one to let you know sometimes I make the biggest of mistakes. I'll share this story. Jennifer asked me if I would be willing to and I'm like, yeah, happened recently. within the past couple of months. were getting you know each other a little better and So I started telling Jennifer some stories. I collect dragon statues. like dragons. I think they're awesome. can I say? And there was this one statue... this figurine that I had 13, 14 years. I've had it like when I first moved to West Virginia, I found it in an antique store and I bought this figurine and I brought it home and shortly after I brought it home, all these bad things began to happen and I quickly realized that the item had been cursed. in my hubris, I thought I could do something about that. did prayers did some exorcisims some rosaries after praying the rosary, I put it around the dragon figurine. And when I woke up the next morning, all the links on the rosary had turned black. And it was just one of those things where I'm like, wow, that was pretty potent. But then I never felt anything negative coming off of it after that point. And I genuinely thought I had successfully destroyed that, removed the curse I had cleansed it and I could just treat it as a normal statue and I put it on my shelf with my other collectibles and that's where it has remained and that became a story that I would tell people now and again. shortly after I met Jennifer and Jennifer is very sensitive to things when I showed her the statue as part of my story, she immediately said something didn't, well, she, I don't right then and there. Yeah. Her heart, she felt something was wrong I was dismissive. I'm like, I know that demons don't like me telling that story because it's one of the ones where they were defeated. So I was thinking. was like, I don't know, I think you might want to look at that again. Is there something off? Like, I think it's not quite done. And that was all I said. Yeah. And some events began to happen and me and Jennifer had a conversation. The spirit told me, like, listen, why don't you double check? Why don't you listen to her? And at the time I told Jennifer this, I didn't realize I was being dismissive what she had said. Like I said, I was thinking something else entirely. never thinking that I could be wrong. And that's again, that's pride Anyway, when I finally listened and I heeded Jennifer's advice, I looked at the statuette again. And incidentally, I had just watched a show on hidden symbology that evil people do. And when I manipulated figurine, I saw all the hidden symbology that was in it that I had missed years before and that I had never picked up on. And the moment that happened in my apartment, quite literally all hell broke loose. it was a bad, it was a significant fight when I realized I had been duped all of those years. I ended up saying screw it. It took me a while to clean my apartment. I think I did like three exorcisms and multiple rosaries and holy water and.... I really had to fight to cleanse my room once that gig was up. And then I finally just destroyed the statue. I mean I flat out destroyed it and did every I pulverized it and I buried the pieces. I scattered them Oh, 30 mile radius of each. I mean, just totally destroyed it, eliminated after I did that. For lack of a better phrase, in the weeks that followed, I leveled up. I realized my mistake. And I tell you what, that was a very humbling experience me because I thought I had overcome it and here it was slapping me in the face once again then I've reached a point in my life where I'm like, all right, I need to get some help. And so I went and talked to a couple of my close friends about that talked through it and figured out where I needed to go. But the fact that I had accepted help, the fact that I had listened to other people, including Jennifer was a major growth on my part because that is one of my failings asking for help. was raised that you always solve things yourself. So anyway, that was kind of what happened you realize that it is a continuing struggle and don't be afraid to make mistakes. no matter what point you're in, things happen. Yeah, it hurts and it's not fun. move forward. like it's an unnecessary necessary. Like was that really necessary? Gosh, you know, that could have been avoided, but maybe for us it was. I had thought about that and it's like, instead of thinking that I could fix it, instead of thinking that I had that ability, had destroyed it when I first bought it. how much more could have been avoided? what did that thing do while it was there? And the thing is my friends and my family call my apartment the mini cathedral because I have relics and holy posters. I have medals. I bless it constantly. So it is a little bit of a sanctuary. And I think had happened is that I have so many blessings involved with where I live that those blessings were counteracting a lot of what that curse was trying to do. So That was one of the reasons I never saw it and I didn't feel it out. imagining, or it seems right to say that it had kind of a cloaking ability or masking ability to hide from even the best of us, And for some reason I could feel it, Maybe the spirit spoke to me like, help him, tell him something's wrong. the whole concept of pride. You have not only be accepting of your gifts and understanding that they are your gifts, it's your life, but you also have to recognize the gifts in others and be willing to use that when you need to. And We need each other. We absolutely need each other. again, we can't do it alone. have my own story that I thought of while you were talking about yours of when I was particularly prideful and it caused me a significant amount of pain. After divorcing from my first husband, I was kind of on a spiritual high, or at least I thought I was, where I felt very confident in my ability to hear and recognize God's voice and respond to it. don't think I was as close as I thought I was. And I still had a lot to learn and a lot of pride that was keeping me from seeing all of the truths accurately. And was in a place where I have visions quite often, day visions mostly, not usually at nighttime. asked the Lord to show me my next spouse. And had a vision where I saw this dark haired man and he walked across river, kind of a raging river, he walked across it and then held me. could see he was very tall, very handsome, the other person who was with me walked away. I was like, wow, where can I find this man? there was a point at which I made a connection with a firefighter who was the spitting image of the man in the vision that I'd had. And it didn't take me very long to decide that this was the guy. And I even prayed about it and got confirmation that, yes, that's the guy from your vision. And I decided that That was my next husband, he was my soulmate. I filled in all the blanks, right? I didn't ask enough questions. We dated, we got married rather quickly, because I didn't have any doubt in my mind it was the right thing. But there were red flags that I should have been picking up on and choosing to go to God and say, have I missed something here? But I didn't want to believe it. I wanted this to be my knight in shining armor, happy forever, happily ever after. So I married him. didn't take very long for... honeymoon period, if you will, to wear off for him. grew very unfond of the situation because he was driving long distances to travel home from his job in California. I was being taken back to court at the time by my first husband and it was very costly. He didn't want to be burdened by that. were a lot of things. And he just up and left, abandoned us. And I had told everybody, oh, this is my soulmate. I know for sure. What a hit. I mean, it was like the carpet was taken out from under me. couldn't breathe. Just that kind of wind knocked out what just happened. I was shocked, but also embarrassed because I had been so sure. and I got it wrong. mean, not that was an important connection for me. But had I taken a step back and allowed God to guide that journey and not me just taking the reins and running with it, what I thought was supposed to happen could have saved me a lot of pain. that was definitely humbling experience for me that took me out for a while emotionally, physically, mentally, spiritually. I was kind gun shy. My confidence was blown. But it also allowed me to come back a much more wise and much more humble moving forward after I got past that period of, I don't even want to talk to God, I'm scared, what if I get it wrong? And it was because I hadn't been talking to Him enough that I made the mistakes I did. But I just assumed, what just happened? He told me it was my husband. Ah! I'm so confused, I must have been deceived. I don't know, you know, it was very confusing time, but after getting through that, and it really took up until the time that I finally gave up my will for God's will and choosing someone for me, that's about how long it took, I would say about a good two years of still being prideful, still couldn't see it, still confused, and then finally, okay, I just keep making things harder for myself. I'm ready to rely on you again. Completely this time though. And that's when my husband showed up and we talked about that in our last episode about a life after divorce and soulmates are real. So that's a really good one. I really enjoyed recording that one. But that was really big kick in the pants for lack of a better term. That was hard. Really, really hard. If you've overcome depression realize you're not alone, that there have been people that have gone through this mess, come out the other side and, it's doable. I can even tell you looking back, am I the same person that I I first moved down here some 16 years ago? No, I have grown I still continue to grow. so It comes down to turning to the light. Like, shoot, I've been walking the wrong way for a while, it keeps getting darker. Just your face around, face the light again. Sometimes that's all you need to do. then sometimes someone will have to carry you in that direction. But as long as you're looking there, I want to go that way. Help me. As long as you are moving forward, that's the key. Do not stop. Even if get taken down, it's a lifelong experience. especially from God's perspective, He looks at your life as a long-term investment. He sees the beginning, the middle and the end. Whereas whenever you're living your life, you're only living that moment. And sure, you can still look into your past because you've already gone through there, but the whole future aspect, that has yet to be seen and God knows that. He knows where He wants you to be and you just have to trust Him. not just this life either. there's life after this one where we're gonna still be learning and growing and getting invested in He knows how valuable we are. And I think we often dismiss that more than anything. Like we do not see our value and that's why we make the stupid choices that we do that hurt ourselves and others because we don't see it, especially... when you're struggling with depression or mental illness of any kind. The way we treat ourselves can just be horrific, but even in just these choices we make that aren't in anyone's best interest, but especially our own. Even if it might seem like it at the time, like, this is what I want, but looking at the big picture, why you shouldn't compare yourself to other people. the hallmark of the sin of pride when you're doing comparisons. The only person you should ever compare yourself to is you. Christ. I'll put myself next to him and say, how can I be more like that? He's a good role model. you know yes you compare yourself with yourself. Even when I was a runner, it was, can I get one second off this last time? That's what I would mentally prepare myself for before I ran a race. Because if I was thinking about the other runners, it would cause me a lot of stress. I'd freak out. It had to just be about me and what I was trying achieve. and my own goals, not trying to beat other people. And often if I achieved my own goals, I would also beat other people. in that case, competition in sports, amazing, but done with the right spirit, even better. I did want to share a short story from the Book of Mormon, if that's okay with you. It's a really good story. short and sweet, but in Alma these two brothers went up to Zarahamla. It was... Ammon and Aaron. And Ammon is so excited about the success they've had in the city and the people who are listening and the lives they're changing. And Aaron kind of taps him on the shoulder and says, uh, Ammon, feel like you're boasting a little bit, you're getting a little too prideful about all the success you're having he says, no, no, no, no, you don't understand. I am so proud of what God has done for this people. I am boasting God. If it sounds like I'm boasting, I'm sorry, I'm just feeling God's love, God's strength, what he has done for us, what he has done for this people is amazing. And I think in a nutshell, that's the difference. when we give all the glory to God. Like I even have a hard time saying the words my podcast because I feel like any glory that this podcast currently has or ever will have is due to God and the blessings and the gift He has given to me to do it. It's in His hands. And so when we take personal victory or personal glory for anything people our life, kind of a dangerous road to start. and people, who don't understand this, people who are not religious or people who don't believe in God, they say, well, take credit, you did all the work. But He gave me the body, the energy, the spirit, the guidance, perfection, the gift to do it. Only He can give that to me. And there's other means of becoming famous. We know that dark forces can provide that. But the end, it's all the glory to the master of darkness. destroy you. And I think on the opposite end, when we give the glory to God, He will in turn glorify or level us up, help us to become more like Him. But it won't come from thinking that we did it. That'll just take some steps down, I think. you've mentioned the dark one, you know, Satan, if you want to see the number one example of pride Satan was not content with the gifts God had given him. He wanted everything to the point that he even wanted God's abilities. he wanted to dethrone God. He wanted to be better than God. All the glory to him. Yeah. what's really sad is, for lack of a better analogy, I he's a narcissist. He wants to be at the top, the only one. So even people that choose to serve him and follow him, they might have a momentary glory. They might have all this earthly success, but at the end of the day, Satan still considers it his and now you belong to him. So he is stolen it he's going to take from you versus God will give to you more than you have. analogy. God gives, Satan takes. Mm-hmm. some quick quotes from Ezra Taft Benson who wrote that incredible talk on pride, but that it's easy to see in others, but not easy to see in ourselves. uh tree from your eye. Yes. It can look like living beyond our means, withholding praise. That's one that I don't think a lot of people think of. Just if you see something you like in somebody, tell them. It'll make them happy, know, instead keeping it to yourself. Withholding forgiveness, jealousy, believing that it lowers your position to have someone above you somehow or better at you than something. It's the universal sin, the great vice. He said that twice. So that must have been pretty important. He also says you can become humble, which is the remedy, by confessing and forsaking our sins and putting God first. Couple of the great writers for the Catholics, St. Thomas Aquinas and Pope St. Gregory the Great, they said, pride is the queen of all vices. Because it inevitably leads to everything else. uh yeah, I would say yes. 100 % yes. and then the quote pride goes before the fall. Mmm, yeah. Is that a scripture? don't know if it is or not, to be honest with you, but heard it so many times and it resonates so strongly. Yeah. humble you become, the more you rely on God. Exactly. Who is the source of all power. Exactly. I think we'll end with that today. was an amazing chat. Thank you, John. Thank you, Jennifer. This is the Overcome Depression Podcast and We will see you next time.