55: FEELING DEPRESSED? YOU'RE IGNORING YOUR INNATE DRIVERS!

If you struggle with chronic depression, you’re probably living by someone else’s compass. In this episode of the Overcome Depression podcast, discover the reality of innate drivers and how this knowledge can transform your mental health, improve your relationships, and clarify your life’s purpose.

View all LINKS and supporting content mentioned in this episode HERE: https://imaquarius.com/55-feeling-depressed-youre-ignoring-your-innate-drivers-chapter3-55/

In this episode, Jennifer Stirling-Campbell interviews Dawni Angel, creator of the Innate Driver System. Together, innate drivers and non-negotiables (i.e., inborn traits that shape and motivate us on every level) are so profoundly important, in fact, that Dawni compares them to life-saving food and water. Dawni also shares how three failed marriages led to her towards the groundbreaking framework that resulted in the Innate Drivers system, and how understanding and implementation of these principles allows the amazing marriage relationship she shares with her husband today. 

This conversation offers a powerful message: healing begins with identifying your non-negotiables and learning how to live in alignment with them.

You’ll also learn how unmet needs, survival mode, and unconscious conditioning can distort your natural strengths, bringing them into “shadow”—and how clarity around your innate drivers can restore connection, reduce conflict, and support emotional wellbeing in every area of your life.

This episode of the Overcome Depression podcast is for you if you want to learn:

• How chronic depression can develop when we live by other people’s values instead of our own
• What innate drivers are and how they shape motivation, identity, and life purpose
• Why understanding non-negotiables can radically improve relationships and mental health
• How “survival mode” (fight, flight, blame, and shame) can distort personality and wellbeing
• How aligning with our innate drivers can improve every facet of your life

Transcript

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If you struggle with chronic depression, chances are you are navigating life with someone else's compass. That is to say that you living values of other people. But maybe it's time to reassess what actually matters to you. Today, I have an incredible guest, Dawni Angel. In 2009, Dawni began developing the innate driver system, which delves into the core of what inborn and lifelong traits guide and direct you, what you value, what motivates you, and what makes your life meaningful. She works with people from all walks of life, impacting those who are high profile executives to people just in normal, busy motherhood lives. So, Dawni first, how did you discover innate drivers? What is it and how has it impacted your life? Okay, so big, big, big question, right? So I'm gonna actually start with the discovery story because I feel like it will make a lot of sense. I was already working as a coach, so this all happened in 2009. And I my first coaching session 2002. I was still working, I was a professional photographer for many, many years. And it's interesting looking back at that because I think I used a lot of the same skills as a portrait photographer and an event photographer that I do as a coach. So at the time I was doing photography, I was coaching was married to my ex-husband and very unhappy about it. oh So, yeah, okay. First of I'll say it. When I do speeches or whatever, I'll usually start off by saying, I don't mean to brag, but I have completed three marriages. I'm an overachiever. It's really interesting to me to say that was on my third marriage because as a human being, the way I am in every other way, that is very unlike me. Yeah, me too. I'm on my third. Okay. And I never expected that to be my result. Like I'm a very, I would say, steady, stable, high, high functioning person. And not to judge anyone who's been divorced, but it's not the path I saw myself taking. So just imagine, set the scene for you. horrifiedly realizing that I'm miserable in my third marriage. My third marriage is failing. Okay? So I was 40 at the time. And I'm like, okay, I can't believe I got myself into this situation again. And he called me from work one day, we had a two year old, and he said, hey, get the baby tended, we need to talk. I was like, oh no, okay, here we go. And my thought was maybe he's willing to talk through some things and we can get some answers here, some solutions. So he comes home that night and. kind of making us a little snack to go sit in the living room. And he just blurts out, I am miserable and I want a divorce. So the I'm miserable was not the least bit of a surprise to me. The I want a divorce was a huge surprise to me because my now ex-husband, then husband is a very certain kind of a person, very stable, security, stability. predictability, certainty, all those types of things. And so I couldn't believe that he was wanting a divorce. And so I was shocked, And we sat down and I said, I'm just so confused. Why would you want to divorce me? I thought that I had learned these huge lessons in my other two marriages. And I thought I was being wife of the year. So I did the thing. which now seems silly, but I started listing my virtues. I'm like, I keep the house clean. stay home with the kids, because I also had three kids for my first marriage. I also make money. I'm affectionate. I'm loving. I'm communicative. All the things that matter to me. And this was really the moment that changed my life, this next moment. And I'll just do a quick little callback. to my childhood where I was obsessed with the question, why do people do the things they do? You were a very intuitive child, from what I understand. Well, very. I mean, that's a whole other thing, but yes. And I had a very traumatic early childhood. And so was so confusing to me why the adults in my life making the choices they were. It didn't make any sense to me. this obsessive question, why do people do what they do? And that had led to years. I mean, years of me studying everything from spirituality, religion, mysticism, psychology was a really big one for me. studied personality disorders, mental illnesses. I was just trying to understand the incentives behind the lives people were living, including my own. So here I am back in this moment, and I'm... Listing of my virtues to my husband who I did not want a divorce from I wanted to keep our little family together I call my third marriage. It was like my redemption marriage. No pressure I can almost be like good person if I can make this one work and He said after I'd listed all these things. I thought were so amazing about me He said I would trade all of that for some security And I remember just feeling very confused by that, but instead of asking a follow-up question, I did this thing I do when I am uh triggered, where I get real cold. I get real hyper independent. I get real like, I said, good, then let's get a divorce. Good, I'm miserable too. Let's get divorced. Now it's his turn. to get defensive, which is interesting because he just asked for a divorce, but I think he didn't really want a divorce looking back at it. But at the time he started listing his virtues. He brought to the table and he's like, I make good money. I'm really good with money. I take care of our finances. I work hard. And I was like, in my mind as he was talking, I was like, no. Does he think I married him for money? Money is not filter through which I view life. Right? I'm a kind of person. I'm really good at making money, really good at spending money. I'm decent at saving money. I don't think about it. It's not something I'm driven by. And so I was like, no. But after he finished, I looked at him, I said, and I would trade all of that for some connection. So now I'm wanting marriage for connection. He's wanting marriage for security. So we ended up hashing it out all night, decided to stay together for practical reasons. And the next day I finally asked the right question. I said, I'm so confused. You said you wanted security. I do bring security. And he said, no. I said, then what do you mean by security? And he's like, first of all, I need you to work a W-2 job. I'm so tired of the ups and downs of you being an entrepreneur. Basically predictability, X amount of money in savings, certainty, all these things. And I was like, oh, honey, that's not going to happen. I'm psychologically unemployable. I'm an entrepreneur on a cellular level. yeah prison No, like literally, literally, and later realizing that autonomy is my number one non-negotiable. But at the time, as we sort of were having these conversations about what was incentivizing us, I realized on the deepest possible level, wow, wow, I've been asking why my whole life, looking for a universal answer. And instead what I found was, We are all quite unique, driven by different things, have different non-negotiables. So innate drivers is what I my work, but there's also an element of that that is about your non-negotiables. Interesting. And we are living life through the filter of ours, Unconsciously thinking that other people are just really terrible at playing our game. Right? Right? Yeah. It took me a long time to realize that not everybody thought like I did or could anticipate my needs. I don't understand. This seems like so basic. So obvious, right? Yeah, but it's not to other people who have completely different filters. Exactly, and adding the element of that most people do not clearly know what their non-negotiables are and what they're driven by. And I know this to be true because when I first had this epiphany in 2009, I started studying it like crazy. I'm like, what is this? What is out there? Came across the idea of core values. I used to call it that, but as I was studying the current work, at least in 2009, that like, this is not deep enough. not expansive enough. This is not real enough. I've come across business trainings where they give you out of these 15 words, what are you driven by? And I'm and yet none of those words describe why people never talk to their own mothers again. Why people leave their families. Why people move to a different country. It was too superficial for what. Yes, like literally and innate the part of innate is one of the things I found in my studies that made me really passionate about basically devoting my life to this work, which I've done, is that the studies, not my studies, We all know anyone who's a parent knows your kids come a certain kind of way. yeah. Right. can we guide them? Depends on the kid. For those of you who have, um, or, two of them are kind of unparentable. I'll just say that they got their own things. Very much come how they come. Right. But the studies show that children are born valuing the things that they will value until they die. And boy, when I heard that. I was a hundred percent in because I had always wondered who would I be had I not experienced the trauma and abuse I experienced in my childhood. And now I had this tether to like, who actually am I underneath all the trauma and the drama and the conditioning. so when I say innate drivers, what I mean, These are the things that incentivize you, that motivate you, and that you're passionate about. And deeper than all of that, these are the things that give your life meaning. You're on your deathbed at some point going like, okay, I did it. Yeah, was my life worth it? Did I value to this planet? And I love what you're saying. This whole section of podcasts that I've been recording are all about getting away from who am I right now and getting to the depths of who am I really. I put that in the language of where am I right now. Yeah, where am I right now? That's absolutely perfect. necessarily the who. And if someone comes to me and they're in kind of a dark place, survival mode place, what I can know is it's not that they're not living their values or their drivers, it's that they're in the shadow with them. Yeah, which goes along with depression. There's so many people who are so confused about... I was. I mean, for 25 years, I was chronically depressed And I was very confused about even what I wanted. just on a basic level, what my needs were and why I was doing the things I was doing. Because I was looking at myself and trying to psychologically analyze, why do I act this way? I do not want to be this way. don't even know how to change it. I didn't understand what was driving me. why is it so hard for so many people to identify what we really care about? What's getting in the way and why are so many of us operating under the influence of other people's values and we're going in the wrong direction because of it, thinking this is what we're supposed to do and then we're miserable because we're operating on something or someone else's compass, whether it's society, parents, friends. Religion, because every person I've met, now there are probably exceptions to this out there and I'm so happy for them, but everyone I've met has been taught from the time they were little in many different, some big and some very nuanced ways, the message is this, you should be different than you are. You should be less shy. You should be more quiet. You should be better at sitting down and doing your schoolwork. You shouldn't be so adventuresome. You should be more adventuresome. There's so many messages, whether it's from parents, peers, siblings, teachers, religious leaders, political leaders, that say you should be a certain way. And it's very confusing because it's not even like they all agree. Right? It's extremes. And for me it was, you're too intense. You're too angry. anger isn't necessarily awesome, but directed in the right way, it's pretty awesome. It's very powerful, right? Anger is a really powerful tool for moving us into more alignment if we use it that way and for seeing behind the BS. A lot of times anger is a BS meter. This isn't right. This isn't true. So, okay. So if you picture. a child who is being told in a million different ways that they should be different than they are and that when they do act in an authentic way in a childlike manner, which means that can be a lot, I did this to my kids, I'm sure. and it's not that we can't obviously teach our children how to get along in this world, how to consider other people, how to collaborate, how to work harmoniously. I genuinely believe there are ways to do that and keep their spirits and their joy and truth intact. It's directing, that motive, that energy in an appropriate way. into the healthy expression of the driver. And so when you take into account how much conditioning public school alone is and I'm using this word very deliberately is an insane amount of conditioning. If I were doing it now, I still wouldn't homeschool. I don't have the temperament for that, but I would definitely find an alternative. There's no question. I would pay someone to homeschool my kids. It's basically what. Right. when you see the amount of conditioning that your kids are under and that you were under as a child, it makes a lot of sense that again, especially your first and second driver, they are not so much neglected as drawn into the shadow. So an example of this for my life is my number two driver's connection. So little call back to that experience with my now ex-husband. we did end up staying unhappily married for another seven years. After that, trying so hard to harmonize our drivers. he was not interested in that harmonization we share a beautiful daughter who's now 17. and really I feel like a very happy ending to the story because get along fine now. I don't know that I would have ever discovered it without the constant push from a spouse. telling me I should be different than I was. uh Yeah, I have so much thanks to my two ex-husbands for what they taught me. At the time, it was traumatic and I was resentful and had a lot of anger and hate, but now I look back and I'm like, Thank you. I actually thank him in the foreword of my innate driver's book I'm writing right now. I'm so grateful to all the lessons And apparently, fourth time's a charm, I've been very happily married now for five years. We've been together for longer than that. this work has made that possible. So going back to my number two driver's connection, And by the way, often the first one that comes to your mind ends up being your second driver. Your first one will be kind of a prerequisite to that. So if you're listening right now, think about what you think is important to you. Like it will most likely be number two. Yeah. Because the number one is typically something that's really practical. Like my number one is workability. So for me, I can't fully connect until my house is clean, my bills are paid, I have a flow and an ease in my life. And I will choose to create workability. No matter what is going on in my life. When my husband was laying on the couch, dying of COVID, he did not die, but he almost did. I was doing dishes, cleaning up the coffee table. I can't function well without workability. Okay. Okay. So you get me. I get it. I can count on one hand the times I have left the house or gone to bed without doing the dishes. have to have everything kind of in its place, order, so that I can come home or wake up in the morning and feel like I've served my future self so that I can make life easier for her the next day or the next morning. You're speaking my language right now. Okay. A hundred percent. So it's not that workability is more meaningful to me than connection. That it's a prerequisite to connection. could tell you a thousand stories of ways I've chosen workability over connection, including the men I married before. Yeah. this is what all three of my ex-husbands have in common. They're gorgeous. I'm just going to say it. All three of my ex-husbands, beautiful, beautiful men. So apparently visual things matter. great at their jobs, made good money, and were clean and organized and orderly humans. Still are. this is me going in unconsciously, not knowing what drives me. I'm actually gonna return to your question going back to why have we come away from the health expression of our drivers? The other one is that I'm just going to give a shout out to it and it's not what we're talking about today, but it's a big part of the work I do and that's our core wound. everyone has a core wound except for there are probably some gurus on the planet that don't. I've never met them. And when we're acting from our wound, we are acting from survival here's how I consider it. I see the wound to be surviving. By the way, zero judgment. Zero. There's no judgment that I have about survival mode. Well, it's more like a reaction, and most people don't even realize they're doing it. 100%. It's, well, this is actually something I do a lot of work around surviving versus thriving and then in the middle reviving. I teach big workshops and retreats and executive teams the subject. So this is one my passions as well. The wound, if the wound survival mode, your non-negotiables are reviving mode. and your drivers are thriving. So your non-negotiables come even before your drivers. They're the foundation for your life. They're not what you're driven by or passionate about. They're more like, if you think of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, this is where it's individuated. When it says like basic safety, everyone feels safe in different ways. Right. So what is that way that you feel safe? This is your central nervous system, is your non-negotiables. So again, thinking back to my ex-husband, lucky number three is what I like to call him in my mind when I'm differentiating between. Our poor ex-husbands. Bless, bless you all. Bless every ex-husband in this world. when I think about his security is probably a non-negotiable for him because without it, like if our savings account went under a certain number to him, we were minutes from being homeless. His central nervous system was dysregulated. For me, that's how I feel about autonomy. I was madly in love with my second husband and I left him because of the lack of autonomy. Can you describe what that means to you? me is I own my body I own my life and I am at choice 24-7. So the thought of like having a boss especially at 56 years old but I felt this way for very long time. The thought of having a boss that's like you can't take your lunch right now I would burn a building down. Okay. You remind me not to hire you as a W-2 employee chance that I would allow that. Obviously I wouldn't really burn a building down, but I have walked off. The last W-2 job I had, I walked because they said I had to come in on Saturday I had a really important event and I was like, I'm done. absolutely not. You cannot tell me. So you can imagine how that went growing up as a teenager. I actually ran away from home at 16 years old for four months. lived with a cousin because my parents impeding in some pretty deep ways. Yeah, lot of parents don't get it. They just don't get it. They were practicing on me, right? I was the guinea pig. But they were really truly in my world, impeding me from living the life I was born to live. And I was like, absolutely not. So that's what I mean when I say a non-negotiable. I'm talking it's very close to food and water for you. It's just barely above survival mode. So without autonomy and without your non-negotiables, You're back in survival mode. Your central nervous system is dysregulated. You're in fight or flight. I'm a licensed certified mediator and conflict resolution specialist. I've chosen to work with couples. My couple's work is with couples who want to stay together. Every single time. It's not a driver that's been threatened, which is why they're leaving or wanting to leave their marriage. It's a non-negotiable. So really good question for you to ask yourself is why have I left especially serious past relationships? You don't leave a relationship especially with children involved for petty reasons. No. You leave because something so deep in you has been threatened you can't live that way anymore and be well. So when I get these couples clear about their non-negotiables, their own and each other's, everything starts to shift if both of them are willing to do the This is real, fundamental, essential to live a thriving life. So would you say that what you do is quite a bit more productive than a marriage counselor? Number one, I'm the wrong person to ask because my marriage counseling was so horrific that I would say it actually hurried the divorce along, Maybe just a bad experience for you. and I tried quite a few. I do have a marriage counselor that I refer people to, only one, he's phenomenal. His name is Jonathan Sherman. He's in Utah. you're struggling and you need insurance to cover it, because I do not take insurance, I'm a coach, I have seen it to be very difficult Cause I don't believe in compromise. think compromise breeds resentment and it's a lose-lose. What I'm a fan is harmonizing. I want to see a couple harmonize. So going back to the fact that workability is my number one. Well, my wonderful husband who I'm completely in love with and he's stuck with me until I die. And I will die first. he's, he's way younger than me. So odds are good. he is number one is creation he's a project guy. He's a creative for a living. And I'll tell you, he has about four rooms full of stuff. I would prefer he didn't. Cause workability. But what we've done is ask the right question. How. Do we create workability in our home without impeding his creation? we have beautiful answers. The garage is his and I try not to think about it or open the door. Right. his office is also his. and his truck, those are his. And then he is so wonderful, not just about not bringing his stuff into the common areas, but also in his creations. He's constantly making me things that increase my workability. There you go. Now, so does my husband. The struggle he's expressed over and over that he resents more than anything. And I'm not sure where the line is. He likes to put things places like right in the middle of the living room where watch it for sometimes a month. but he doesn't want me to move it because he wants it to be there when he needs it. And so I'll move his stuff. because I'm trying to make it look nice in the room and I'll put it in a drawer or I'll put it in his truck or somewhere that makes sense to me. And then he'll be upset because I moved his things. But I can't have sanctity and peace in the home because I'm having to look at this cluttery thing like tube of caulk right on the counter. Like I can't. There's zero chance that would work for me and here's what I would say. So my husband, I'm not saying your husband does have this, but my husband has ADHD. a nine out of ten for my lovely redheaded Aries husband. Yeah, he's Aries too. Oh! Mmm! Yes, exactly. my husband's name is Gideon and with Gideon out of sight is out of mind. So what we have done because we had something very similar, he had to be able to see it to be reminded of it. Right. Is in his office, I found it. He put it together. a big huge unit in his office that is like open shelving. So all of the stuff he uses on a daily basis is right in front of him where he can see it. It's not behind doors. It's not in drawers. So we have found these solutions because we've been asking the right question and I feel like it's improved and enhanced both of our lives and both of our drivers. So in our marriage, Instead of three non-negotiables, we have six. instead of three drivers, we have six drivers in our marriage. And we take them very seriously and we honor each other as we honor our own. So you're combining three and three is what you're saying. Absolutely day I realized that creation meant as much to him as workability does to me I actually cried because I could see all the ways that I'd been pushing his creation as if it was not that important. Not only is it his livelihood he's uh videographer and photographer really truly truly an artist, phenomenal. But it's also his joy. If he goes a couple days without creating, he gets unwell. Why would I ever want to threaten that in any way shape or form? So it's really profound. It's not just a profound way to understand yourself. It's a profound way to work in collaboration with others. Spouses and children particularly. Those my favorite. haven't gone through what I've gone through with divorces. I'm so passionate about families. and doing everything in my power to help people keep their family intact. And understanding children's non-negotiables and drivers is such a game changer that I don't even have words for it. this is going to sound dramatic. I genuinely believe that's why my 17 year old daughter is still alive. went through a very rough couple of years, 12, 13, middle of COVID. lost all her friends wasn't able to go to school and I knew from the time she was nine what her drivers were Let alone her non-negotiables and we were able to show up for her as she was going through some real gnarly stuff In a way that was able to keep her here what were some of her drivers? oh her number one non-negotiable, which shows up a lot, is exploration. tried to stop that kid from exploring. we had to find ways, okay, bike rides, um art stuff. We really had to create ways for that to still happen. Her number one driver is love, which for her is like acceptance and belonging, compassion, quality time, presence. And because she wasn't getting that with her friends, we made sure she got it with her cousins. and then with us as her parents. And so to know exactly how to show up, number two is freedom for her. Number two driver. She had to be allowed to still live her life in every way that we could make that happen. And then number three is creativity. There's a lot of creativity for us during COVID. and during her years depression and anxiety, those things have continued to beautiful gifts. She's doing much, much better now, but she doesn't just feel loved by me and her stepdad, she feels understood. We all want that so desperately. I kind of knew but I didn't fully know until I was asked by the University of Utah to come speak to their psychology department and we're sitting in this big beautiful room at the U. All these kids are there between the ages of like 18 and 26 or something and I said, raise your hand if you feel like your parents love you. oh Every hand except for one went up and I said, raise your hand if you feel like your parents understand you. Exactly opposite, only one hand went up in that whole room. Yeah, I felt that. I felt like my dad understood me, but I didn't feel like my mom understood me. And that was hard. It's hard to want to be deeply connected to someone you feel almost like sometimes almost purposefully misunderstood by. I have adult kids. my 17 year old is my youngest. I have a 32 year old who lives in a different state has my grandbaby. If she doesn't feel understood by that's going to really threaten that relationship. Luckily, I think she does. talk all the time. We have a very close relationship. do have a son. I think maybe he doesn't feel fully understood by me. I'm working on that, but it is harder to connect. He's the only child that we haven't officially done his innate drivers. He doesn't seem interested. So it's like guessing game. Yeah, I look at my kids astrology charts sometimes to try to guess going on in that brain of theirs. And it does help quite a bit. But yeah, it's just so hard when you want to understand, but you're so different. and that's why we're doing this whole section on personalities, because when I realized that my mother was the polar opposite of me literally everything that motivated me meant nothing to her and vice versa. The value system, what I valued, what she valued, completely different. So was this constant misunderstanding because what we would say would go through these filters that were completely opposite of each other. and then it would end up in... her feelings things that were very unnecessary if I just understood the way my mom's filter worked, which has made an incredible difference. And she now understands the way my filter works. And we have an incredible relationship now, but it took almost 38 years for that to happen. Well, think about what would have been possible had both you and your mother known your own, first of all. And then really again, asked the right questions. if my daughter has a number one non-negotiable of exploration and I have a number one of workability, how can she explore and still have it be totally workable for our home? Okay, well, let me know where you're gonna be. send me your ETA when you're on your way home. mean the solutions are not usually difficult solutions but we will not get them if we're asking the wrong questions and if we're also like reacting in that survival mode constantly in fight-or-flight energy and that's why the first thing I have people do I do two hour sessions. They're not always innate drivers, but often they are, or the second session of that core wound. But as they leave with this information in black and white, detailed, clear, first thing, okay, start practicing making sure that your life is living around those non-negotiables. If you have a non-negotiable of trust, you... First of all, gotta work on self-trust, your own boundaries, but also don't marry someone who is a chronic cheater. You will never be well and you will be in survival mode for the rest of your life. be hard for anybody, but especially someone if you have that trust as your- Right. Exactly. And this is where the knowing yourself on this clear, really, really deep level is powerful. One of my favorite aspects of knowing this is it's much harder to gaslight me, which is something I have experienced in the past quite a bit. To be fair, I'm sure I've also gas lit, right? But I would, hear things about myself, I'd be like, is that true? Do I do that? Should I care about that? Almost impossible to gas light me at this point. used to question when people would accuse me of things and now I just look and go, I'll consider that. Yeah, there's things I can improve there. Or, nope. Nah, that's not true. And just being very real about it without judgment, I guess. I would love to shift some things that would make me more true to myself. I am unwilling to shift things that would actually be a self betrayal. Like my ex wanting me to work a W-2 job. If I ever was to, which is hard for me to picture, work a W-2 job again, it would have to have so much flexibility. and freedom involved and I would still need to be at choice the whole time because that's what that autonomy means to me. So was I willing to do that for him? No, because I would have been actually unwell and back in survival mode, which would not have been loving to either myself or him. Because you wouldn't be your best self. Exactly. I jokingly say that living your drivers in healthiest expression, has almost made me a good person. I'm so much more calm and happy and less controlling and all those things because my life is in alignment. And what you just said rings very true because I feel like when I'm not being true to what is driving me, what my needs are, I do start to verge into trying to control everything else because my life feels out of control I'm miserable and I'm making everybody else miserable too. That's like the first thing that goes when I start to feel out of alignment. I'm either getting to workaholic mode or picking my husband apart trying to fix him and... make everybody else change so that I feel better. And when I'm like, no, no, no, it's me that needs to change here. It's not everybody else. This is a me problem. But it's often hard to do that you're mentally ill or really struggling with the depression or anxiety. You're not well most of the time. But a of us look outside of ourselves instead of with... Inside, right? Well, and speaking of survival mode and looking outside of ourselves, there are two main things that I see show up in survival mode across the board, almost comprehensively. The first one is blame and the next one is shame. Blame and shame are survival mode energies. Again, we're not judging them. We're not blaming blame or shaming shame, but we are just noticing, oh, I'm doing some of these things. I'm in survival mode right now. And then as an individual person, your non-negotiables are your rope out of survival mode. So I am primarily an executive coach. I have a lot of CEOs, business owners. So most of my clients, many of them between the age of 33 to 55. I And a lot of them are men. what I've noticed is if someone comes to me and they're 48 and they're chronically unwell, right? now I am the first person to tell you there's so many factors and physiology is a huge factor here. that's not my forte, although I've studied it intensely, but talking about the type of work I do, which is more the mind, the mental, the alignment work, every single time they are negotiating with at least one of their non-negotiables. So let's say peace is a non-negotiable for them and they're in a marriage where it's constant drama, trauma, conflict, abuse, and they never feel at peace. Yeah, they're gonna be chronically unwell. Well, it's interesting. I read a book written by a firefighter for firefighters because firefighters have such a hard time staying married. It's about a 95 % divorce rate. one of the things he said that I've never read anywhere else was that one of the indicators that you're either going to make it or not make it is how you handle conflict. So two people who are kind of vicious and hash it out and yell and shout, if they're both there and forgive afterwards. Those often work. The ones where they're both passive, where they avoid, those often To some degree, yeah. And obviously you have to work through those things and you have to be respectful and you have to be doing your best and being trustworthy and all of that. But in general, you're... fight style. And then there's those who do it appropriate way that we're taught where you say something and then they say something and you validate. And that's great too. But ultimately you don't want one person pursuing and the other backing down or vice versa. Yeah, you've got to be honoring what works not just for you, but for the other person. because it can be very traumatizing for someone who it doesn't work for them to be yelled at. I'm one of those people. I'm not a yeller and I don't think I ever need to be yelled at again, unless I'm about to get run over by a car or something. Yelling does not work for my central nervous system on any level. I've had enough yelling to last me the rest of my life. uh But my husband doesn't mind it at all. Good for you, you can't yell at me. of my non-negotiables is support and I do not feel supported on any level when I'm getting yelled at, especially where he knows that doesn't work for me. So, so much of this is about, again, yes, understanding but also honoring. Mm-hmm. enough just to understand somebody. Do you truly honor what matters to them? And you don't do that at the expense of your own. don't use it against them. don't weaponize I can destroy someone in one shot. Absolutely. the people who really value this work are the people who have a desire have harmony, collaborate, feel aligned in themselves, live a life they were born to live. It took me a long time to realize that there are genuinely different types of people in this world and that not everyone wants that. That was a heartbreaking realization for me of like, there are people who truly do not want to find peace or harmony. Not many, but they're there, right? When you think of someone talking about narcissists, they're not going to be interested in your non-negotiables only to weaponize them, So this is work that works in relationships where both people are willing to care deeply about what works for another person and who want to create workability and harmony and peace and growth and these type of things together. And being willing to ask the tough questions of, is there anyone in my life who I'm in denial about, cognitive dissonance or whatnot, that I need to separate myself from or distance because that describes them. They're never going to care, even though I want them to care. that's a pretty big step for some people. it's huge, especially if you're married to them and you have children and you're financially dependent on them. So when I work with couples, I will never work with a couple together to begin with. They're not going to tell me the truth together. So I meet them separately and the very first question I ask is, do you want this relationship to work? If they are yes, here's how that goes. Absolutely yes, I really do. I don't want it to stay like this, but I really want this to work. This answer, um that's a no. We gotta talk more about this. But I can't tell you the amount of times it's one person in a couple is like, yes, I'll do whatever it takes and the other person is like, not really. Okay, then I'm gonna help you consciously. Separate as well as we can usually for the sake of the children and to not create any more trauma But you guys You got to have two people that want this Especially in that romantic relationship now if we're talking about children Particularly minor children you showing up for them does not mean that, your eight year old's gonna try to figure out what your non-negotiables are. You can share yourself with your children, and I think it's beautiful to do that, but this is a way for you to be better parent and for you to create some ease for them in understanding themselves. Saying things to your children, like, gosh, I notice that you get so excited when you find or learn new things. Do you think discovery is important to you? To help them to see it. to help them to see it. I wanted to make one more comment, so I want to make sure this gets covered. When I was saying before that people don't usually neglect their first and second drivers. if they're not in a good place in survival mode, they'll be distorted or corrupted into the shadow. So for instance, and experienced a lot of this when I was younger, so workability. could distort and did for me into OCD, perfectionism, control behaviors. I had four kids and I had vacuum lines in my carpet every day. That's not healthy. I used to do the same thing. It was ridiculous. It was ridiculous. It was What a waste of a life. So the shadow of connection, that can be really drastic, like having affairs. inappropriate connections, but it can also be codependence, enmeshment, entanglement. So legacy is my third driver. And for me, the shadow of that has been choosing my own, family of origin over my spouse. being loyal to my family of origin to a fault. His legacy for me is largely about family, generational healing. I love doing genealogy. Yes, I want to make a difference in the world, but mostly I want to make a difference in my family and heal the generational. is wonderful. Thank you. And yes, in the light and in the healthy expression, they're all beautiful. In the shadow, they can get pretty muddy, pretty corrupt. And you can think of any driver, think of something like stability its shadow being that rigidity. So you're saying that people who are in fight or flight are more in tendency to go to the shadow of drivers or non-negotiables? Yeah. The non-negotiables and the drivers will go into the shadow. thinking about with my non-negotiable of autonomy rebellion, don't tell me what to do. And very much. mean, in, far as archetypes go, that's one of my top archetypes is the rebel. you must have a lot of Aquarius in there. Yeah, Aquarius' son right here. m okay. I'm a Gemini Sun. moon and a Libra rising, so I'm a triple air. that's a lot. Yeah, it's, it's a lot and have found a lot of balance there through, mean, of course I'm all about the mind and the mental and the cognitive, but I found a lot of balance through self-awareness. And also I'm always listening for other people's drivers, not to manipulate, but to honor, to know what language to use there. I use the example with my husband. I have a big, huge family. We're together all the time. Family reunions are a lot because there's 67 of us from my parents on down. So a lot. so my husband's number one is creation, his number two is sovereignty. number three is growth. So, hey Gideon, if you choose to go to the family reunion this year, right there, right? Sovereignty. You choose to go to the family reunion and by the way I would not be mad at him if he didn't. what you could do is you could bring all your camera equipment, we're going to a new place, you've never been there before, growth, and you could shoot some stuff for your, he has a lot of side projects and work and all the things. Well right there I've just honored all three of his drivers. not to manipulate him into going, to leave him at choice and if he comes enjoy it. I love that. And I think if he had different drivers, where it was acceptance or wanting to feel loved and you offered that same wording, they would feel like you don't want me to go. Yes. Or are you, you're leaving me out. You just want to go without me. And you'd have a totally different result. understanding how the people you love operate and honoring that, even if it doesn't make sense to you. lot of effort to put myself in that space, because I can be so in my own head. But a world of difference when you do and saves so much energy and time and everything around you thrives when you're taking care of your people in the ways they need. You're thriving, you're helping them thrive. You actually get really pretty good at it pretty quickly because the results are so phenomenal that it stops feeling like any kind of a chore and it starts feeling really good that you can show up for them. What I've noticed as I'm sitting with someone for two hours, I ask probably 500 questions in a normal session. they're different questions every time because it just depends on. what's happening in that moment, I don't have a hard time understanding why they have those drivers after that especially as I get to know people. And especially, you know, when I hear about their wound, their wound makes sense, their strategies make sense, their non-negotiables and drivers, you can tell they were born with them. They have stories that happened when they were four years old. I mean, I, as a mother with my daughter who's got exploration as her number one non-negotiable. the stories I have. She wandered off. I could go on and on up. She used to beg to live in the woods like beg me. she'd be like, I want to take a tent. I want to go live in the woods. I'm like, exactly. She has the experiments she would do. that's what happens when you put toothpaste in a pez dispenser. There's no surprise there. And it was so clear she was born that way. I started seeing these behaviors in her as a literal baby. A baby. So it gets really fun. It gets really exciting. And so to kind of sum it up cause as you can tell, I could talk about this forever. my passion, my life's work know, you had asked me how it's changed my life. The fact that with the childhood I had and three divorces it, it's such an understatement to tell you that I'm happily married. so beyond that. it's hard to even put into words because it sounds disingenuous. Like I am 100 % satisfied in my marriage. Every single one of my needs is met. I feel totally seen, heard, supported. I have complete autonomy and yet absolute certainty in the strength of that union. And deeper than that, I've absolutely certainty union I have with myself to know that if something did happen to my husband or he started making different choices, that I'd be okay. It has created a level of groundedness and centeredness and clarity and excitement as I'm living this aligned life. My life works for me. beautifully, like so beautifully. I feel so, unbelievably content and excited about every day. Like that's a lot you guys. Yeah, and anybody can have this. Anybody can have this. I want to emphasize that. If you are not experiencing this right now, then you need to take a hard look at yourself, at your relationships, you've got to get that clarity that you deserve and you can have. everything that Dawni just described. And I've experienced that in my life as well. Not that my life is perfect! It's not about perfection, it's about alignment. I have experienced every type of abuse there is. And I mean that, like genuinely physical, sexual, psychological, and spiritual abuse. I've experienced deep, deep levels of those throughout my life. For me to be where I am feels like a miracle. Feels like pure grace. Of course I'm gonna dedicate my life to getting this work out there. I do again a lot of other type of work that helps you understand yourself. I love human design, I love astrology, I love gene keys. This is before that. This is before someone tells you what your blueprint is, I really don't even quite have the words for how deep and sacred it is to know yourself and others on this level. this has the potential to shift the planet, honestly. So yes, it's just so beautiful and exciting to me. So how can people reach you and work with you? Okay, innatedrivers.com. I have, these big coaching packages and stuff, but I have where you can just do innate driver's session with me. I live in Utah, and if anyone lives close by, I do have them come in person. I'm a really big fan of in person, and it's worth it. People travel quite a ways to come see me in person. But otherwise I do Zoom sessions. I have clients all over the world. yes, as much as I prefer in person, I can absolutely do a Zoom session. So innatedrivers.com is how you find me. Awesome. Thank you so much, Dawni. I appreciate your advice, your wisdom, and the hope you are giving to our listeners today. And if you are listening, please consider hiring Dawni. It will have a way for you to email me also on my website So if you do need a payment plan, just send me an email say I want to do an innate driver session with you Can we work out a payment plan? I'm so passionate about this. I want as many people as want to do this to do this are wonderful. again, for all those listening, take advantage of this, consider it, listen again. There's so much in this episode I'm Jennifer Stirling-Campbell and you are listening to the Overcome Depression podcast. We will see you next week.